|
Post by accipiter on Aug 4, 2020 13:32:09 GMT
I would say they were all 80 plus Ian,incidentally, I meant to say August the 4th, doesn’t time fly... Alan
|
|
|
Post by Tringa on Aug 5, 2020 12:52:08 GMT
Interesting comments from the Home Affairs Select Committee - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53654644The lack of border measures earlier in the pandemic was a serious mistake and ministers underestimated the threat of importing the virus from Europe. I think the average person would have considered quick border measures and controlling the importing of the virus to be necessary - what do we pay ministers for? Dave
|
|
|
Post by Psamathe on Aug 17, 2020 12:24:48 GMT
Interesting experience(s) today. Normally I "routine shop" at a local town supermarket (small one) where everybody waits outside until security wave you in (these days normally immediately), everybody wears face masks and keeps distance, etc.
Today I went into Norwich and food shop at M&S (then Sainsbury) and more than 10% of shoppers not wearing masks; looking for something on shelf and somebody barges in (physical contact), people stop in doorway blocking everybody unless you "brush past".
My surprise was not that "somebody" was not following rules (there is always somebody) but rather that it seems acceptably common. Except for masks you'd not have been aware of any pandemic.
Makes you wonder why they bother making laws and rules when they seem totally optional with no enforcement and so many ignoring them.
Ian
|
|
|
Post by Tringa on Aug 17, 2020 14:21:10 GMT
Agree Ian.
Unfortunately, there are not enough police to enforce the wearing of masks or arrest someone for not doing so.
The lack of the chances of being caught combined with a relatively small initial penalty (currently £100 for the first offence, reduced to £50 if paid within 14 days) if you are caught means, in addition to some refusing to accept the usefulness of masks, some are happy to take the risk.
If the initial fine had been set at £1,000(with no reduction) with enough ability to enforce the law things might be different.
I don't know if your experience is unique as I haven't been in a shop since mid March and, if I can avoid it, I won't be going in one anytime soon.
Dave
|
|
|
Post by Tringa on Aug 22, 2020 9:05:21 GMT
Anyone else fed up with
(a) stories in the news media about how some people holidaying abroad have been had to change their plans when quarantine restrictions come into force, and
(b) the affected people complaining that they have had to change all their plans, had their holiday ruined or had to spend a lot more money trying to get back to the UK?
It is fairly obvious the COVID19 status of a foreign country can change so why complain when it does? Perhaps going abroad for a holiday this year is not the best idea.
However, it seems some of those who have stayed in the UK are making a mess of the countryside here.
Dave
|
|
|
Post by Psamathe on Aug 22, 2020 9:27:59 GMT
I agree. Also worth noting that 14 days self-isolation is not a big deal - just follow Government expample for what you CAN do e.g. - 1. Drive across the country to stay in your 2nd home
- 2. Pop back into work (even if your partner is showing symptoms)
- 3. Have a day trip to Barnard Castle.
Plenty of fun things to do "self-isolating". For many years working I never had any holiday (nor any weekends) - I survived so I find this desperate need for a week outside our island in the middle of a still increasing worldwide pandemic difficult to appreciate. Ian
|
|
|
Post by kentyeti on Aug 22, 2020 20:26:25 GMT
Agree Ian. Unfortunately, there are not enough police to enforce the wearing of masks or arrest someone for not doing so. The lack of the chances of being caught combined with a relatively small initial penalty (currently £100 for the first offence, reduced to £50 if paid within 14 days) if you are caught means, in addition to some refusing to accept the usefulness of masks, some are happy to take the risk. If the initial fine had been set at £1,000(with no reduction) with enough ability to enforce the law things might be different. I don't know if your experience is unique as I haven't been in a shop since mid March and, if I can avoid it, I won't be going in one anytime soon. Dave My last visit to a shop was 13 March. And, like you Dave, I don't plan to return to using them for as long as I can avoid doing that. So far, everything I need is ordered online and is being delivered to my doorstep. I emerged from voluntary shielding in mid June, confining my limited number of trips away from home since then, to in-car owl studies on the Isle of Sheppey at quiet times (for people). So far so good! I've had to fill up with petrol twice, at the pumps of a large well known UK supermarket, which has pay at pump. I go at the quietest time, put on latex gloves, glasses and a face mask. Then use a rubber tipped pencil to operate the key pad. Back in the car, gloves into a waste bag, and then lots of 70% alcohol anti-bac hand gel on my hands etc. During those two visits I have seen others buying petrol with no sign whatsoever that we are in a pandemic; no other masks, no cleaning of pumps by staff etc etc.
|
|
|
Post by rowanberry on Aug 23, 2020 13:38:19 GMT
However, it seems some of those who have stayed in the UK are making a mess of the countryside here. Dave This has become a too-common sighting, unfortunately.... Sign of the Times July 2020 by Wabi Gallery, on Flickr
|
|
|
Post by Psamathe on Aug 24, 2020 11:05:05 GMT
It will be interesting to see what happens with the return to schools, more over the longer term than the e.g. 1st week (which will undoubtedly see most pupils return). Government is strongly pushing that youngsters don't suffer from C-19 (which seems widely accepted) but a French study has shown that youngsters with C-19 (but not suffering effects badly) are still infectious to others (from www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/coronavirus-children-adults-pass-symptoms-kids-transmit-schools-a9494286.html) One particularly interesting aspect (I find interesting) will be that most epidemiologists seem to thing the R number is currently at or above 1 across most of the UK and that schools returning will increase that figure. General opinion seems that pubs are "the perfect storm’ for spreading disease" so will Johnson be able to bring himself to close pubs (which it looks like are a major source of spread). Interesting because Johnson seems (to me) generally slow to appreciate and even sower to react (brought home to me by my Mum, a staunch Conservative who for months has held Jonson faultless yet now admits she is shocked about how useless he's been and now thinks he is unsuitable as PM). (from www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-pub-lockdown-drink-bar-spread-preston-a9661446.html) Ian
|
|
|
Post by Tringa on Aug 25, 2020 12:01:58 GMT
Agree, Ian. I would like to see the results from the testing broken down by age and whether or not the person had any symptoms, though I suspect the number of children tested is fairly small. From the Independent article it seems the jury is still out on whether children can pass COVID19 to adults - we are just going to have to wait and see. Unless there is a huge spike in cases I don't think the government will close pubs etc again. Boris Johnson doesn't want to upset anyone, but given we are still encouraged to maintain social distancing it appears ludicrous to let people congregate in pubs and expect them, after a few drinks, to keep their distance. It is also interesting that pupils aged over 12 in Scotland are going to have to wear masks in school, but this is not, at the moment, going to happen in England. Other than those who have a medical condition that would make wearing a mask difficult or dangerous I can't see any problem with it. A school pupil in England should wear a mask in, say Tesco, but not in their school where the contact is likely to be much closer. Dave On a different tack. I have just read that Gavin Williamson has been nominated for MP of the year .
|
|
|
Post by accipiter on Sept 2, 2020 11:28:05 GMT
First of all I would very much like to begin on a soba note since I thought about given my opinion in relation to covid 19 an airing if I should be so bold; however you will have to forgive my tone of speech here but since I’ve seen at first-hand how hard terribly hard the doctors and nurses are working in the hospitals I think I’m in a better position than most. Having said that I know for a fact most people are still not taken this virus seriously enough, one only as to observe the antics during raves and other associated meetings that have been reported to see this is indeed the case. But then again, we are now living in a world where the welfare of others is being completely disregarded in favour of peoples own selfishness even if the possibility should lead to the third parties’ demise. To spell it out clearly it would seem all sense of morality is no longer regarded as a standard worth pursuing. Not to mention the amount of rubbish and filth left in the countryside placing the wildlife at risk, likewise leaving it on the beaches and also placing the lifeguard’s life at risk too. Unfortunately, the risk of contracting covid 19 doesn’t end there see (NHS report) NHS REPORT However, evidence shows that many of those survivors are likely to have significant on-going health problems, including breathing difficulties, enduring tiredness, reduced muscle function, impaired ability to perform vital everyday tasks and mental health problems such as PTSD, anxiety and depression. Having read many other reports particularly the evidence already gathered in relation to SARS I truly believe those who are already in the at-risk category will go on to experience multi organ failure. Having said that I am also well aware of statistics in relation to contracting covid 19 being extremely low but this shouldn’t become an excuse for complacency given the facts I previously explained. Incidentally, five months have now passed and I’m still being closely monitored in relation to my accident in the garden and my treatment is still ongoing. However, the doctors and nurses treating me are still under a great deal of stress but still continue to thank me for obeying the rules related to covid 19 e.g. remaining at home and not traveling aboard. I’m also required to state those facts each time I attend the surgery so “please” don’t place our wonderful NHS at any further risk since they are experiencing enough stress already. However, you may be under the impression I’m behaving irrationally in my estimation of the seriousness of this virus but I assure you most emphatically I am not. Neither am I deluded in to thinking that we remain at no risk whatsoever, if you doubt my word then ask any doctor who’s experienced the pandemic first hand and they will paint you an entirely different picture. Alan
|
|
|
Post by Tringa on Sept 13, 2020 9:58:34 GMT
Excellent post, Alan.
I couldn't agree more, especially the first paragraph.
It seems, for some, the idea that their freedom might be curtailed even a little and for, hopefully, a relatively limited period of time is a total anathema.
We are seeing an increase in the number of cases now. Admittedly in part due to more testing but also to people congregating. I hope the new rules will help but I suspect not because (a) pubs are still open and maintaining social distancing is going to be very difficult and (b) there isn't enough manpower(should we have personpower now?) to enforce compliance.
Unfortunately this behaviour is another example of general selfishness - I can do whatever I want whenever I want.
Dave
PS All the best for your continuing recovery.
|
|
|
Post by Psamathe on Sept 13, 2020 14:04:37 GMT
..... Unfortunately this behaviour is another example of general selfishness - I can do whatever I want whenever I want. .... A couple of articles you might find interesting Or maybe more dramatic And then there is the demonstration of lack of appreciation of statistics from our politicians (Project Moon-shot) So, frequent testing of the population takes only very basic maths to work out the number of false negatives (people attending crowded situations spreading having been tested "clear") or false positives (people being pushed into self-isolation when they are not infected due to test limitations). e.g. test 10% of the population once a week assuming 95% accuracy for detection (i.e. 5% false positives) gives 315,000 unaffected people a week being needlessly pushed into self-isolation - and that's equivalent to testing everybody every 10 weeks! (my math might be wrong but I'm not pushing this political policy). Except current tests are not that good and a lot depends on where you set the cut-off sensitivity. Make the test more sensitive as it's important to avoid infected people attending offices/football/pubs then the %age false positives increases as well! And the Government is talking about 10,000,000 tests per day which at 95% gives half a million unaffected people being pushed into quarantine every day! Only a politician could ... www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/09/what-is-no-10s-moonshot-covid-testing-plan-and-is-it-feasibleI wonder what impact all those healthy people being needlessly quarantined and not being able to work, spend, etc. will have on the economy? Ian
|
|
|
Post by Tringa on Sept 14, 2020 7:44:38 GMT
Interesting articles, Ian, especially the first two even though the conclusions are not surprising - allow(or in fact encourage) more people to come into closer contact and it should not be a surprise if there are more infections, and I don't think I'm the only one who thought a completely voluntary self isolation scheme was not going to work. The idea of testing 10,000,000 per day by next year(though I note there was no indication when next year) is I think totally unachievable. I have just looked at the UK population figure from here(https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries) and if it is correct then it means close to 15% of the population would be tested everyday. Is this anywhere near possible from a government who told us we would have a world beating testing and trace scheme by June?
The 10,000,000 a day announcement reminds me of a jokey document that circulated when I worked in central government. A couple of the spoof recommendations about policy making were - announcing a policy is as good, and possibly even better, than actually doing it, and it is even better if you can attach a number to the announcement.
While testing will never be 100% I'd live with the false negatives if it gets a better view of the incidence of the virus in the majority of cases.
Dave
|
|
|
Post by Psamathe on Sept 14, 2020 13:21:00 GMT
....While testing will never be 100% I'd live with the false negatives if it gets a better view of the incidence of the virus in the majority of cases.
Dave
In relation to "a better view of the incidence of the virus" I was randomly selected to have a test as part of the Government's attempts to monitor the incidence amongst our population. I agreed to take part, got the test, did it as instructed and then got the T&Cs and there were some horrendous privacy issues that taking part means you grant. Not issues about if you are positive and disease spread avoidance but granting all sorts of people complete access to your fully identified entire medical history for 20 years, the right that you be contacted (not test and trace but unidentified and not necessarily C-19 related research - not even necessarily medical research). It looked like more of a trick to get you to give up medical anonymity than much else. My test was thus never submitted (so I didn't waste any test resource). To withdraw I had to phone them. When I phoned to withdraw it was funny as the guy withdrawing me from the trial had to write a free text reason and I didn't have to tell him the reason but he read out what he was entering and it was 100% accurate - I was far from the first! Ian
|
|