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Post by souwesterly on Apr 3, 2023 14:05:41 GMT
We've moved into a new home and to our annoyance, there was a nice pond, left behind by the previous tenants. Our annoyance isn't at the tenants but at the council - because in the interests of Health & Safety, they've shredded the pond liner into uselessness so what left is a hole with a thick layer of sludge at the bottom.
We would have loved to have 'inherited' a pond because we were required to destroy our own pond in our previous home before we moved out. Because of that we had to find homes for our fish and of course we also dispossessed umpteen frogs - although that's all history now.
But our current situation has become very confusing because, thanks to all the rain in the last month which has created a swampy puddle at the bottom of the old pond, we've just discovered a colony of newts living there!
I guess that the pond, when it was a 'going concern,' must have been the home for these newts - but currently their home is very temporary and unlikely to survive much longer.
We do happen to have a 9' x 3' preformed pond that we brought with us - but what can we do to help the newts quickly? If we fill it with water that'll help with their egg-laying, but we don't have any plants yet and obviously there won't be any nice swampy places for them.
So please, if anyone can help with ideas, we'll be very please.
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Post by ianr on Apr 4, 2023 7:56:10 GMT
I can't say that I've heard of this one but a quick google and it seems many councils do this. You'd have thought that a pond being the best thing you can do for wildlife and so long as it's not too large there would be no problem. The best advice I saw was to ask nicely and promise to reinstate if / when you leave the property. Make sure you show photos of all the inhabitants that you can and your keen interest in nature. Who knows they might say yes. Course if they say no------ well a good story for the local press  bloody jobs worth's and health and safety seems like they have sod all else to do  ian |
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Post by Tringa on Apr 4, 2023 8:44:56 GMT
This probably not workable, unless you have a lot of labour and containers, but would your pre-formed pond fit into the current shredded pond(or could the shape of the current pond be made to fit around your pond)?
If so, would it be possible to scoop out the sludge and newts(or the newts and some of the sludge) into some conatainers, put your pond into the hole and then put the newts etc back in the 'new' pond?
I can understand this might not be an option as your preformed pond will need good support all round or it is likely to break when filled.
I'm assuming there isn't room(or you don't want) to create another pond in your garden and put your pre-formed pond into it. It would be a lot of work and it could leave your garden looking like a battlefield and unless you sort out the current wrecked pond the newts might prefer it and go back.
Hope you manage to sort it out, do let us know how it goes.
Agree with Ian about the council. Would it be too much for them to ask when new people move in if they want to keep an existing pond? If they had asked you they could have saved themselves a bit of work.
Dave
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Post by souwesterly on Apr 5, 2023 11:45:32 GMT
Hi Folks,
Thanks for your replies – and in the middle there's one workable suggestion...namely to scoop the sludge (and newts) from the bottom of the old pond and transplant it all into our preformed pond. Thank you Dave.
To fill you in about the council – ponds are a big hazard so far as Health & Safety are concerned and I'm sure that councils would ban them if they really had their way.
So many people have young children (obviously!) and councils are scared of being liable for trouble should any child fall in and drown.
The rule of thumb down here in Taunton is for the council to make any pond in any rental house that changes hands a no-go area, or in other words, a bit of the garden that won't drop them into any trouble.
When we first saw this place we loved the garden and pond and pleaded with the council to let the pond remain - and for that matter, to leave the garden as it was too. Again its part of our council's ruling that gardens too should be returned to how they were originally – namely just a flat area of cheap and nasty grass. (I add that bit because the council might be so nice as to use a decent grass seed but instead the stuff they provide is as least as rough as any meadow, if not worse!)
Anyway – it took a lot of pleading to get them to leave the plants alone – there are some really nice and unusual plants planted here by the previous tenants and as an avid gardener, I wanted them to stay. At least they agreed to that.
So the pond was made unusable – huge holes were cut in the lining and it’ll now cost us a small fortune to reinstate the pond.
But actually we don’t want a real pond – what we’ve always wanted to do (even before we discovered our newts) is to create is a shallow pond for amphibians and plants but without the fish. (They’re an expensive hobby what with the filtration gear and food, etc)
So now I’m going to need at least a cubic metre of soil to part fill the hole and a new liner for the shallow pool wherein I want to create a boggy part and a watery part, so lots of hard work.
I guess I’ll also need to demolish and rebuild at least part of the rockery so that I can extend the liner beneath it somewhat.
Our preformed pond will be of some use though – to house the newts while all this work is going on but that’s really where I want your advice.
What kind of environment do I provide – a wet one (because rain will accumulate in the preformed pond anyway) or just a boggy one? So will I have to keep scooping most of the water out?
It does seem that newts only use ponds for breeding purposes so a bit of water is better – but will a pond really be of use?
I’ll have to buy some pond weed – but which kind? And anyway, the weed will take a while to grow and get established so it still may not be of use.
So hopefully you can see where your help is really needed. I can transplant the sludge to some extent but what else will they want?
Sorry if I haven’t explained things too well but I’m not used to coping with newts!
Apologies too if I’ve just written an essay – I am renown for chattering too much – sorry!
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Post by Tringa on Apr 5, 2023 13:56:56 GMT
Thanks for the update Souwesterly. It seems your council(and from what Ian said above other councils too) have a one size fits all policy. It wouldn't be too difficult for them to say to a new person something on the lines of, "Our normal policy is to return gardens to their original state. If however, you want the garden to be as you have viewed it then please let us know. In doing so, you agree to accept full responsibilty for any injury sustained in the garden." Sorry, I'll stop going on. Back to your questions. The following is based on what we have seen in our pond over many years rather than any specialist knowledge. This thread shows our pond - wildaboutthebritishisles.uk/thread/3023/pond-recovering it is about 7 x 4 feet and nearly 2 feet deep in the centre. We have had newts in the pond every year for ages so I assume they like it. Newts do spend a lot of time out of water but return to breed in the spring and summer. Even though the newts might be there for only part of the year a pond is a great thing to have anyway, though I guess you know that as you have brought a preformed pond with you. For water weed - any mixture of native oxygenators and deeper one will be fine. There are plenty of online aquatic nurseries. Another one to try is watercress from a supermarket. Just thow a bag in and it will probably grow. A cubic metre of soil! That is going to keep you busy for a while - good luck. Dave |
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Post by ianr on Apr 6, 2023 5:56:57 GMT
I suppose now is a good time of year to add native pond plants water crowfoot water mint and so on, all will grow quickly.
Even if your doing the shallow boggy pond thing you'll still need a deeper area.
It surprises me that the council would mess with the garden at all, here in Lincoln I can't say that I've heard of them doing anything like it. In fact what a shame it would be to remove plants from an established and loved garden just for the sake of it.
The lady who'd lived in the council house across from us since new in the 50's had to move into a home last year, yeah the council blitzed the house and updated things inside but the lovely well cared for garden was left alone, no pond though.
I'd also question how legal it was to destroy a well established pond, surely newts, frogs and toads are protected?
ian
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Post by souwesterly on Apr 6, 2023 8:10:10 GMT
Many thanks to you both, Dave and Ian – your comments are both useful and thought-provoking as well as being very welcome.
I'd appreciated that there were many threads in times gone past about newts, but to know which one would (or might) be useful was a problem, so thanks Dave, for the link.
The council's actions are inevitably linked to child deaths in unguarded ponds around the country. Sure, there's not been that many kids who have drowned – but even one is too many and is enough to frighten councils into action to avoid being sued, I guess.
As for their actions to raze plants, etc – that comes down to the old ruling that you should return the property to the state in which it was rented to you, and I can see the sense in that to some degree. Fortunately they do seem to accept normal wear and tear over the years, otherwise we'd all be required to employ an army of decorators to slap on fresh wallpaper and paint when we moved!
However, to destroy the plants in a garden (trees too, I might add) is really over the top, I reckon. Thank heavens that we were let off the ruling when we vacated our old property because the move was forced upon us. We’d been in our home for over 30 years and we’d done a lot to the garden. When we first rented it the council gave us a big plot of just grass. 130ft x 45ft of grass! And we didn’t even own a mower when we first moved in! But by the time we left we had a big pond (15’ x 10’); a huge rockery against the back of the pond; a greenhouse, numerous nicely mature trees and 6 sheds – all of which the council have now destroyed.
Someone (not here) once asked me why on earth we’d waste so much of our money on something that wasn’t ours but obviously you don’t think that way. To us, that home was where we’d pass our life and would only depart in our coffins, so it was “ours” in our minds. Unfortunately the houses on our estate were found to have concrete cancer so we were all moved out. Sad, but that’s life.
In this, our ‘new’ house and garden it would have been galling if the council had have flattened the garden because not only did the council wreck the pond but they also removed a perfectly good conservatory from the back of the house. We’d have loved to have that but since it wasn’t part of the original home, it had to go. We curse the council, under our breath, every time we go out through the back door and I’m sure that our cats do the same!
Cheers
Chris
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Post by souwesterly on Apr 6, 2023 8:12:38 GMT
Hi again folks,
So back to the newts. My wife counted 30 last night. She didn’t intend to go and count them but she had to visit them to return one that one of our cats brought in. Why can’t she (the cat, not my wife!) stick to mice?
What I’m planning to do is now more or less set in my mind.
I’m going to scoop out all the sludge and transplant it into our preformed pond liner. I’ll add some water so that the newts have somewhere to frolic and I’ll do as suggested and buy some watercress – that’s a really good idea, so thank you, because that at least will quickly give them some leaves on which to lay their eggs and will keep them happy until any water weed I buy gets established.
During the summer I’ll obtain (by fair means or foul!) some soil to part-fill the existing pond so that I can then lay a new liner down to form a shallow pond and soggy place. Hopefully the newts will have survived their temporary home and can be moved into their new home once it’s settled down – and hopefully they’ll live to breed many more.
Ian – you mentioned that newts are protected and I too had the thought that the council might have destroyed their habitat and thereby broken numerous Wildlife laws. How I could prove that without causing trouble might be a bit difficult because I’d hate to alienate my landlords!
Nevertheless, it’s something that I do intend to gently follow up, if only in hope of helping future generations of newts.
Right – that’s more or less covered the subject and I’m now happy that I can make our newts happy too. You two have been brilliant and really helpful and I very much appreciate your words.
All the best, folks,
Chris
PS Don’t let that stop you from continuing this discussion if you wish to. I’ll respond willingly and the ongoing discussion might just help others too.
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Post by rowanberry on Apr 10, 2023 21:52:14 GMT
Hello, Souwesterly... just to repeat what Dave (Tringa) said-
it can take a little while for pond plant to establish themselves this early in the year. My go-to emergency plant is watercress from the supermarket.
This year our frogs started spawning earlier than expected, and I bought about four bags of cress... picked out the larger pieces, (anything with stems or rootlets is good) and tossed them into a pond basket.
The frogs spawned on top of the cress, which has already started growing.
I hope your newts are managing to survive... it's sad, how short-sighted councils can be.
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