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Post by tjhavenith on May 2, 2016 21:19:26 GMT
Hi, I have two questions about some primroses I have been growing in containers. 1) I've noticed a couple of times that sometimes two flowers seem to grow fused together. I was wondering if there was a botanical term for this?  2) Recently I noticed a couple of plants that have changed their growing habits. Instead of throwing out flower stems from the base, they have thrown up a fleshy stem that's an inch or so tall and is growing flowering stems from there. I know there are plenty of Primulas that have this growth habitat - could it be down to some shared genetic history? I noticed that it started after the plants started growing a lot more foliage and the flowers weren't growing above the foliage. Could it be the plant realising this and trying to give itself a better chance with pollinators? I've been growing these plants since December and they're still flowering now.  Thanks for any suggestions! Tim |
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Post by alf1951 on May 3, 2016 6:58:07 GMT
Mine are still flowering too and seem set to continue for a while yet. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will give you the answer to Q1. What you describe in Q2 seems normal to me too. I think wild primroses do normally produce flowers on individual stems but they do hybridise freely and given the colourform in your second picture I think it's a cultured specimen.
I'll be interested to hear what others think.
Alf
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Post by ayjay on May 3, 2016 8:02:17 GMT
1) is called Fasciation when it happens to stems - I see it quite often on my Forsythia - I don't know if the term also applies to fused flower heads.
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Post by faith on May 3, 2016 8:18:05 GMT
I don't know of any botanical term other than 'fused' I have to say.
The main thing i would say about your primroses is that they are clearly cultivated varieties, in which case anything can happen! Because of their chequered history, you may get strange shapes, colours etc, which is, of course, what plant breeders hope for. In particular, wild primroses (Primula vulgaris) have one flower per stem, but cowslips (Primula veris) have a cluster as in your second picture. Even in the wild, a hybrid between these two is pretty common, with primrose-type flowers in a cowslip-type inflorescence, so with cultivars it is likely to be even more common.
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Post by tjhavenith on May 4, 2016 8:37:59 GMT
1) is called Fasciation when it happens to stems - I see it quite often on my Forsythia - I don't know if the term also applies to fused flower heads. This looks right to me. Thanks Ayjay. |
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Post by tjhavenith on May 4, 2016 8:39:52 GMT
Mine are still flowering too and seem set to continue for a while yet. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will give you the answer to Q1. What you describe in Q2 seems normal to me too. I think wild primroses do normally produce flowers on individual stems but they do hybridise freely and given the colourform in your second picture I think it's a cultured specimen. I'll be interested to hear what others think. Alf Thanks for your reply Alf. I haven't grown primroses before, so I was surprised to see the variation in what I thought would be stable cultivated plants. It's certainly very interesting to see! Hopefully our plants will continue to flower for the rest of the year!! |
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Post by tjhavenith on May 4, 2016 8:42:56 GMT
I don't know of any botanical term other than 'fused' I have to say. The main thing i would say about your primroses is that they are clearly cultivated varieties, in which case anything can happen! Because of their chequered history, you may get strange shapes, colours etc, which is, of course, what plant breeders hope for. In particular, wild primroses (Primula vulgaris) have one flower per stem, but cowslips (Primula veris) have a cluster as in your second picture. Even in the wild, a hybrid between these two is pretty common, with primrose-type flowers in a cowslip-type inflorescence, so with cultivars it is likely to be even more common. Hi Faith, As Ayjay suggested, I think Fasciation is the correct term. Definitely a new one for me, as I was using the term 'fused' too. It's interesting as I expected the cultivated plants to be more stable! As I mentioned to Alf, I haven't grown primroses before, so have been interested to see the variability. Thanks for your reply. |
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Post by alf1951 on May 5, 2016 6:24:48 GMT
I'm not sure Fasciation is the cause in this case. Fasciation usually results in distortion in the stems and/or flower heads and is relatively rare. I think Faith's suggestion of a hybrid with cowslips or cultivated primulas is a much more believable explanation. Seed from these plants will show the same characteristics as the parent plant in future years.
I realised soon after I had posted last time - I meant to say "cultivated" although perhaps mine are also "cultured" coz we're posh around 'ere!
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Post by tjhavenith on May 5, 2016 6:53:31 GMT
I'm not sure Fasciation is the cause in this case. Fasciation usually results in distortion in the stems and/or flower heads and is relatively rare. I think Faith's suggestion of a hybrid with cowslips or cultivated primulas is a much more believable explanation. Seed from these plants will show the same characteristics as the parent plant in future years. I realised soon after I had posted last time - I meant to say "cultivated" although perhaps mine are also "cultured" coz we're posh around 'ere! Hi Alf, regarding question 1, what would you say is the cause/term? I agree with Faith regarding question 2. |
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Post by tjhavenith on May 5, 2016 7:11:45 GMT
I've just been reading a bit more about fasciation. Most sources seem to suggest that fasciation is 'relatively' rare. I have 12 plants and over the past 6 months I must have dead headed around 1000 flowers. I've seen the phenomenon I photographed for question 1 twice. I'd say that's relatively rare - but as there are no stats that I could find, it's all subjective! Additionally there are plenty of sources online that discuss fasciation in primroses. I've also just looked in my copy of Flora Britannica, which describes fasciation in primroses too. I'm certainly no botanist, but the photo for question 1 does seem to agree with the descriptions online, including that by the RHS: www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=525Although, I'm now tentatively wondering if photo 2 is stem fasciation. From the RHS page: "Often an abnormal number of flowers are produced on affected stems." |
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Post by faith on May 5, 2016 9:08:42 GMT
Are we getting two things confused here? The word fasciation suggests to me 'bundling' (from the Latin) which could be the bundling of several stems together, thus producing a multi-flowered head as in the first pic. This is definitely an aberration, and is rare, though I have seen it from time to time (in wild plants – I maintain that garden plants will do anything to get noticed). But the second pic has multiple separate stems, in an inflorescence known as a simple umbel (think upside-down umbrella). This is what cowslips naturally have, but the flowers themselves look primrose-like, which makes me think it is a hybrid.
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Post by tjhavenith on May 5, 2016 10:18:32 GMT
Are we getting two things confused here? The word fasciation suggests to me 'bundling' (from the Latin) which could be the bundling of several stems together, thus producing a multi-flowered head as in the first pic. This is definitely an aberration, and is rare, though I have seen it from time to time (in wild plants – I maintain that garden plants will do anything to get noticed). But the second pic has multiple separate stems, in an inflorescence known as a simple umbel (think upside-down umbrella). This is what cowslips naturally have, but the flowers themselves look primrose-like, which makes me think it is a hybrid. Hi Faith, No, I'm not getting confused. I'm primarily going by the RHS page I linked in a previous post which states: "Often an abnormal number of flowers are produced on affected stems." As the normal amount of flowers on a primrose stem is 1 flower, then more than 1 would be abnormal. However, I've been looking at the stem and while it isn't round, but slightly angular, there don't seem to be clear fused bundles as I've seen in examples online, just some green and red striping - which probably happens on normal stems, but are too small for me to see clearly! I'm happy to accept that it may well be a hybrid. That's why I used the word 'tentatively' in my previous comment. I agree, garden plants will do anything to get noticed - they've certainly kept my attention for the past few days! Thanks for your reply. Tim |
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