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Post by alf1951 on Dec 12, 2015 15:50:22 GMT
A subject close to my heart at the moment although I'm one of the lucky ones whose home interior has, so far, remained dry. So I was interested to read this article by Oliver Tickell in The Ecologist this morning - www.theecologist.org/blogs_and_comments/commentators/2986590/carlisle_floods_bring_back_the_trees_and_the_beavers.htmlI have to say I agree with much of what he says. We need more trees rather than grass clothing the fells, so fewer sheep grazing up there. But we also need to stop building on flood plains - and not subverting this by building houses designed to cope with intermittent flooding (they still interfer with the functioning of a flood plain). We need to persuade people to stop paving over gardens - currently house hunting, I'm shocked by the number of properties we've seen with gardens given over entirely to concrete, gravel or tarmac. What I cannot agree with Mr Tickell about is the introduction of beavers - I appreciate that they may have been commonplace in the UK at one time but that was a long time ago. They're not awfully popular with landowners in Scotland I understand, nor with many people in Canada - although it is illegal to kill them there. Introductions like this may be well intentioned but can open a whole new can of worms. Lets stick with trees for now even if that means subsidising the people who own the land and/or sheep. Alf
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Post by rowanberry on Dec 12, 2015 22:22:50 GMT
I agree about the amount of concrete and tarmac everywhere these days... almost everyone in our street has paved over their front garden, too.
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Post by shirl100 on Dec 13, 2015 16:30:58 GMT
I have to say I would back the planting of more trees, they are such an invaluable resource not only for water management and soil stability but there are the added benefits of trees using CO2 and locking it away, cleaning soils and the air around us etc .A good easy all round initial solution I would suggest.
Shirl
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Post by accipiter on Dec 13, 2015 17:46:16 GMT
Trees are much more than just a management system, in my eyes they are just pure beauty and magic creating the perfect landscape both as small woods or large forests, man ignore their many essential qualities at their peril. Alan, find me in the woods.
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Post by shirl100 on Dec 13, 2015 18:06:33 GMT
Trees are much more than just a management system, in my eyes they are just pure beauty and magic creating the perfect landscape both as small woods or large forests, man ignore their many essential qualities at their peril. Alan, find me in the woods. Well said!
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Post by eeyore on Dec 13, 2015 22:22:05 GMT
its not as simple as planting trees though it needs to be done intelligently, plus young trees need aftercare or you'll simply wind up with a lot of dead saplings ... not to mention that the change from fell to woodland could have disastrous consequences for species adapted to the fell ecosystem. (and of course the whole societal/cultural thing with the effect on hill farms etc)
IMO the real answer to flood management lies partly in tackling global warming and partly in not building houses in stupid places in the first place - remember the pictures of the flooding in tewksbury in 2013 - all the old town was fine , because the old houses were built up the hill away from the river , the modern houses asininely built on the floodplain (the clue is in the name) were under water. This was also played out in york more recently
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hank
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by hank on Dec 28, 2015 10:28:58 GMT
I'm all for planting more trees. Let's create more parks and forests; but can trees really hold back these amounts of water? It seems as futile as dredging the Somerset levels - measures that will help but not cure the problem. I think we have to invest in a long term solution. Perhaps engage a few Dutch consultants who are experienced in flood management.
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Post by teasel on Dec 28, 2015 12:39:02 GMT
My view is that the reasons for flooding is different in different areas. York, Somerset Levels are flood plains, affected by tides and "distant" rainfall. Places in more hilly areas are affected more immediately by local rain. They need different solutions. Local rain in steep hilly areas may benefit from measures which slow down the water to make a lower, longer peak flow. This could include planting trees, reinstating lost peat bogs, local ponds, small upland weirs / dams - anything which slows down the water flow. Flooding on flood plains could benefit from this too but building on low lying areas should also be stopped. Buildings decrease the water holding capacity of the flood plain and increase the flow downstream and at pinch points. It is a complex problem and I have heard only one reference to changing agricultural practices.
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Post by teasel on Jan 3, 2016 19:39:17 GMT
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Post by NellyDee on Jan 6, 2016 10:16:58 GMT
I agree with you all, but what has not been mentioned is that no longer are rivers and canals dredged so they become silted up. I remember, many years ago, that the river/canal I lived near was dredged every 4 years once the dredging ceased, so the local park started to flood, eventually the flooding got so bad - reaching houses, a very expensive flood plan was put into operation, which involved re-routing a road and making a huge drainage system at huge cost. Surely this sort of river/stream management should be bought back.
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Post by faith on Jan 6, 2016 11:00:20 GMT
The Tay always bursts its banks in exactly the same place here, at a spot where there is a very sharp bend in the river. Stretching out from the opposite bank at this point is a large and elaborate set of fish traps (this is a famed – and lucrative – fishing area), presumably constructed 100 years ago or more. It seems to me that if the fish traps were removed, the course of the river would not be suddenly thrust across and would thus not impact so sharply at that bend, but would flow on down, instead of bursting through. No-one seems to be taking this into account, though.
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Post by Tangaroa on Jan 7, 2016 15:24:03 GMT
Dredging rivers is almost certainly not the answer and only exasperates the problem, particularly downstream of the dredged area. Dredging is essentially tearing out the river bed, straightening channels and de-vegetating river banks, which only makes the situation worse. Dredging is not an effective flood management tool and is hugely destructive and costly.
Instead, flood management needs to adopt a catchment approach, working with nature rather than against it by re-naturalising rivers, riparian planting (as some have suggested), buffer zones (to prevent grazing right up to the rive bank) and re-meandering. This will help take some of the energy out of the river before it reaches towns and cities, allowing their flood defences to cope better.
Almost all studies show that flooding is not linked to an absence of dredging but instead to damage to the river environment.
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Post by NellyDee on Jan 8, 2016 9:36:18 GMT
Dredging rivers is almost certainly not the answer and only exasperates the problem, particularly downstream of the dredged area. Dredging is essentially tearing out the river bed, straightening channels and de-vegetating river banks, which only makes the situation worse. Dredging is not an effective flood management tool and is hugely destructive and costly. Instead, flood management needs to adopt a catchment approach, working with nature rather than against it by re-naturalising rivers, riparian planting (as some have suggested), buffer zones (to prevent grazing right up to the rive bank) and re-meandering. This will help take some of the energy out of the river before it reaches towns and cities, allowing their flood defences to cope better. Almost all studies show that flooding is not linked to an absence of dredging but instead to damage to the river environment. I take on board what you say
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Post by shirl100 on Jan 8, 2016 14:55:05 GMT
I agree that working with nature rather than trying to change it seems a good way forward, but are we actually up to it?
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Post by teasel on Jan 8, 2016 16:15:09 GMT
well it has been done on a small scale, so I suppose it depends who you mean by "we" Do politicians responsible for agricultural policy realise it can have an impact on river management? Does anyone in a position of responsibility plan for the long term any more? Mind, the amount of rain there's been, maybe even good river catchment management wouldn't be enough!
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