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Post by accipiter on Dec 31, 2015 20:31:11 GMT
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Post by ayjay on Jan 1, 2016 9:07:12 GMT
From looking at your link, the only good? news is that the IoM seems a little more enlightened than elsewhere, otherwise it's just barbarians all the way.
I can't see the attraction myself: unless you plan to eat it, leave it alone.
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Post by aeshna5 on Jan 2, 2016 7:27:09 GMT
I think some on the list like Black Grouse + Ptarmigan aren't shot these days. Not something that appeals to me but other European countries are worse than us.
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Post by kentyeti on Jan 2, 2016 9:17:24 GMT
I think some on the list like Black Grouse + Ptarmigan aren't shot these days. Not something that appeals to me but other European countries are worse than us. A very controversial subject these days and one that, like you, does not appeal to me. But it's been part of rural life for centuries and has some controls over it these days. And from my extensive time out on marsh and moor the vast majority of those shooting I meet are decent people who follow the rules. Some very, very nasty exceptions as in all walks of life, but a small minority in my own experience.
My view is that those participating have every right to continue their pursuit within the law, and that the modern day conservationists who have only been around and vocal as they are now a few decades should leave alone a sport centuries old. Except for proven cases of rule breaking where they should shout loud and get listened to and acted upon.
My membership of the Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust is, by the way, because of their conservation work. Which I have seen first hand and benefited from considerably in my work with Short-eared Owls. As the Owls themselves have. And it has greatly increased my interest in such as Black Grouse and Hen Harriers.
Cheers,
Bryan
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Post by accipiter on Jan 2, 2016 9:39:52 GMT
I think some on the list like Black Grouse + Ptarmigan aren't shot these days. Not something that appeals to me but other European countries are worse than us. You would be surprised and shocked to see what a frustrated gun will shoot during a day’s shooting, or may be not aeshna! Alan
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Post by faith on Jan 2, 2016 10:32:24 GMT
I live in an area where one is always having to brake suddenly to avoid killing one of the numerous pheasants and partridges on the road. In the 'olden days' I would have agreed wholeheartedly with Bryan (I have even been fox hunting in my younger days) because the huntin', shootin' and fishin' fraternity seemed to be the people who had a really good knowledge of and care for the objects of their sport, and all the other forms of wildlife associated with it.
The guns I see nowadays, however, are on the whole those newly rich enough to take part (all dressed up like a game fashion show) without actually living in the countryside or giving a tinker's curse about it. We were horrified, for example, when three white pheasants which we always spotted near the road with great affection, were shot by ignorant guns who thought they were being really clever. So I now tend towards the conservationists (though their holier-than-thou attitudes can be a bit hard to stomach sometimes).
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Post by kentyeti on Jan 2, 2016 14:17:21 GMT
I live in an area where one is always having to brake suddenly to avoid killing one of the numerous pheasants and partridges on the road. In the 'olden days' I would have agreed wholeheartedly with Bryan (I have even been fox hunting in my younger days) because the huntin', shootin' and fishin' fraternity seemed to be the people who had a really good knowledge of and care for the objects of their sport, and all the other forms of wildlife associated with it. The guns I see nowadays, however, are on the whole those newly rich enough to take part (all dressed up like a game fashion show) without actually living in the countryside or giving a tinker's curse about it. We were horrified, for example, when three white pheasants which we always spotted near the road with great affection, were shot by ignorant guns who thought they were being really clever. So I now tend towards the conservationists (though their holier-than-thou attitudes can be a bit hard to stomach sometimes). A good post Faith.
I have nothing against the so called nouveau riche: not my cup of tea, but if they have made their wealth by honest means then so be it. But they still have to stay within the law out in the countryside and what you say is a concern I share. Albeit without any specific recent hard evidence. And yes, I share a similar sentiment towards certain conservationists!
Cheers,
Bryan
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Post by accipiter on Jan 3, 2016 8:28:34 GMT
Ah yes a conservationist but then again I suppose it depends what one considers to be such a person because to some it means chasing animals up and down the land dressed in their finest attire whilst at the same protecting other creatures. This type seems tends to change their mind from time to time as well for instance one minute save the panda the next do not waste time and money on such an enterprise! A small list of well-known conservationists Prince Charles, David Attenborough, David Bellamy, Nick Baker, Chris Packam, Ian Newton, Gerald Durrell, Bill Oddie, Jane Goodall, Henry David Thoreau.
Every creature is better alive than dead, men and moose and pine trees, and he who understands it aright will rather preserve its life than destroy it.
Henry David Thoreau Alan the wandering minstrel
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Post by shirl100 on Jan 5, 2016 18:13:06 GMT
I am confused, some of these birds are on the Red List so why can you still "legally" shoot them?
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Post by jonathan on Jan 5, 2016 21:27:17 GMT
I am confused, some of these birds are on the Red List so why can you still "legally" shoot them? Black grouse are seldom, if ever, shot these days and usually thrive best on land that is 'keepered, though the species is doing well in North wales on land that isn't used for shooting but is probably 'keepered to some degree. Grey partridge are difficult to rear and release and have been replaced in many areas by Redleggs, though this seems to be changing somewhat in recent years. Farming methods (driven by our desire for cheap food) have decimated Greys in many parts of the country. Greys can be quite difficult to reintroduce to areas from where they've disappeared - put simply, it's better if there is a small, established population present as they act as 'foster parents' for released juveniles. Some shoots are now rearing and releasing Grey partridge to increase populations and provide a surplus to shoot. Many Woodcock breed in Pheasant coverts, they provide ideal cover and a lack of predators. The vast majority of Pheasant shooting doesn't start until November, by which time our small breeding population will have been boosted by huge numbers of migrants from the north and east. Woodcock, in a worldwide context, are holding there own, it's the UK breeding population that is endangered. As the vast majority of Woodcock are shot on Pheasant drives, most of them will be migrant birds. The Game Conservancy is asking for shooters to restrain from shooting Woodcock at all early in the season, I expect this will be upheld. Personally speaking, I think we should have flexible shooting seasons. A shorter season for Woodcock, for instance from mid-November until the end of January, would seem like a good idea until the UK Woodcock decline can be reversed.
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Post by kentyeti on Jan 6, 2016 8:21:24 GMT
A very informative post Jonathan, many thanks.
Cheers,
Bryan
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Post by shirl100 on Jan 6, 2016 11:34:51 GMT
A very informative post Jonathan, many thanks.
Cheers,
Bryan Agreed and thank you for that Jonathan, I hadn't thought of migrants being included Shirl
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Post by ayjay on Jan 6, 2016 16:21:34 GMT
The Game Conservancy is asking for shooters to restrain from shooting Woodcock at all early in the season, I expect this will be upheld.You have a lot more faith in them than I do. I don't know many shooters, (actually none), but I've worked with a few over the years - their universal mantra was "If it flies it dies".
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Post by kentyeti on Jan 6, 2016 18:58:22 GMT
I guess the approach changes depending on individuals. The wildfowlers I regularly chat to as they go out onto their part of the marsh where I am currently watching Short-eared Owls reckon they get one "good shot" every 4 trips at present. The other 3 trips they come back empty handed. They seem to appreciate the other wildlife around them and I have never heard anything bad against them.
I just hope that approach continues.
Cheers,
Bryan
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notpop
Junior Member
and I think to myself.............
Posts: 50
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Post by notpop on Jan 6, 2016 19:46:53 GMT
My own tuppence worth ,for what it is worth (tuppence I suppose) We cannot rely on a few widely scattered nature reserves to save our wildlife,we must look to the wider countryside,which in the main means farmland . The majority of conservation work carried out on this majority of land is done to support game,with nature conservation benefiting whether intentionally or otherwise. For instance I am sure the vast majority of newly created ponds are dug and paid for by shooting interests. Also a farmer is far more likely to retain woods,hedges and other cover if he is looking for income from shooting. As in all matters,money talks, and giving economic value to countryside ensures it's protection. It may surprise members to know that the annual revenue generated by renting out the game shooting and deer stalking rights of a commercial woodland ,over the growing and pre harvest life of the forest, is vastly greater than the eventual income from the felled timber. As in all conservation,the way to save Nature is to ensure it has a commercial value. Sad but true.
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